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WATCH: Chito Gascon Dismayado, DUMAMI ang NAMATAY “Dahil sa DUTERTE’s ADMINISTRATION”


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This is the Transcript of the interview

0:00    asians in aid of legislation a Senate
0:02
committee report shows there was no
0:06
state-sponsored killings in relation to
0:09
mr. that this drug war but the numbers
0:12
tell a different story
0:13
well at least according to the
0:15
commission on human rights and other
0:17
groups and now that a death-penalty Bell
0:20
is being pushed in Congress how can the
0:22
chr make it stand let's go straight to
0:26
the source of the story
0:27
chr chairman chito gets caught thank you
0:30
for being here so no thank you for the
0:32
invitation I'm happy to be here in the
0:34
eve of Human Rights state it is the eve
0:36
of human rights day we are going to
0:38
memory that tomorrow let's begin with
0:40
the committee report that came out very
0:43
recently
0:44
senator richard gordon chairman of the
0:46
committee on justice and human rights
0:48
saying that there is no state-sponsored
0:51
killings
0:53
what do you think of that well we
0:56
respect the Senate committees decision
0:59
to make its own judgment or things
1:01
however from the point of view of the
1:04
Commission human rights human rights
1:07
defenders and actually the International
1:09
Human Rights Committee community we
1:13
believe that it's premature for the
1:16
Senate to make a decision of this nature
1:18
given that the president's war on drugs
1:22
is continuing and that the debts are
1:26
piling up and unfortunately and this is
1:30
very important to highlight no one has
1:32
yet been upheld to account for these
1:34
stats because when you say
1:36
state-sponsored and he says now there is
1:38
no state-sponsored killings
1:40
it's not just about the perpetrators but
1:43
it's about the state in ensuring that it
1:47
will hold the perpetrators to account
1:50
meaning investigations are conducted
1:51
prosecution's are underway and
1:54
ultimately convictions occur
1:56
yes but when the national bureau of
1:58
investigation itself finds a
2:01
determination of on as assassination an
2:04
execution
2:07
despite the official line
2:09
the those who are involved at nine lab
2:11
man who but no proof of Nanda band has
2:14
happened and then the president will say
2:17
he will make sure they are not going to
2:20
jail
2:21
I don't know how else to describe that
2:24
but being state-sponsored so because the
2:27
president said I will not allow my men
2:31
to go to jail you feel or you're saying
2:34
now that that is state-sponsored will
2:36
automatically when this press that says
2:39
it will be bloody I kill you I will
2:41
pardon those policemen that will be part
2:45
of this whole process it's essentially a
2:49
public policy now I'm not saying every
2:53
single death has a reason over the last
2:56
five months was state perpetrated a
3:01
significant number are committed by
3:04
vigilantes who we do not know at this
3:08
point in time who they are there is some
3:11
anecdotal evidence to suggest that there
3:14
is at least in some cases some
3:16
relationship between some rogue elements
3:19
of the police and these vigilantes but
3:21
at least with respect to the over 2,000
3:25
deaths that resulted from what are
3:27
ostensibly legitimate police operations
3:31
and in every single instance manly man
3:34
including the one involving mayor
3:38
Espinosa again they said no man but when
3:42
you look further and deeper
3:44
it appears to be the case that at least
3:48
in many of these instances it is it that
3:50
then the police authorities that got
3:53
involved in this estate agents must be
3:56
held to account and if they're not held
3:58
to account then that essentially
4:00
state-sponsored ok i was going to talk
4:02
about that a little later on in the
4:04
program but since you brought it up
4:05
already
4:06
yesterday there was suppressed briefing
4:08
coming from the DOJ secretary big eater
4:11
and II pnp chief ronald LMAO Secretary
4:15
of it together were quick to defend the
4:17
president first
4:18
let's put this put this into context the
4:20
president's words he was saying that he
4:22
believes the testimony of the policeman
4:26
and he said he will not allow them to go
4:29
to jail but that is subject to a lot of
4:31
interpretation but first let's listen
4:33
exactly to what the president said I
4:37
will not allow these guys to go to
4:38
prison
4:39
baskin as a BNP I murder totally
4:45
undermine bi I and their communion
4:48
Department of Justice what when
4:51
Newcastle also because the Apple anyone
4:55
the opposite police believing in me or
4:58
chris messina pretty well Angela and
5:03
police on criminal you need to go back
5:07
home not political 7sec be cool and we
5:12
will toss it
5:14
this is a PMO's error will leave in a
5:16
min doubles of the man back to totally
5:20
and my troubles
5:22
how does that make you feel well that's
5:26
actually been what we've been saying
5:28
from day one know that the the
5:31
government has an obligation to ensure
5:33
that our communities are safe and
5:36
protected that criminals must be pursued
5:39
after all have criminal oh but they must
5:41
do so in accordance with due process
5:43
rule of law and respect for human rights
5:46
and up to this point in time
5:49
why we've had some differences in the
5:52
course of monitoring human rights cases
5:56
with security forces for the most part
5:59
the great majority of our security
6:01
forces the police and our soldiers have
6:05
over the last 30 years since the
6:07
restoration of democracy been respectful
6:10
of established norms and when there are
6:14
perpetrators they don't cover up front
6:17
but now with President the third is a
6:21
vision of law and order and strong of
6:25
male fist approach it appears is
6:29
essentially giving law enforcement
6:31
officials apart blanche to do whatever
6:34
they would and this of course creates
6:37
the environment and context for quick
6:40
fixes or shortcuts violations of what's
6:44
called the police operations procedures
6:46
manual p 0 p man 1 which also definitely
6:50
includes what is referred to as the use
6:52
of force continuum use of force
6:54
continuum is a set of standards whereby
6:59
our police before they use a deadly
7:02
weapon must follow and the purpose of it
7:06
is to reduce the risk of death at sea
7:11
and every instance but you know the
7:14
facts show that since mr. 30 became
7:18
president are thatthat's arising from
7:21
police operations has risen dramatically
7:24
now I'm not saying that they are not
7:26
entitled to defend themselves in to
7:28
defend the communities certainly nonlin
7:31
ban
7:32
if proven is a justifiable circumstance
7:37
but in every single case Miliband 911
7:41
and then we're receiving comments
7:43
they're actually alternative stories to
7:46
some of these cases I think what needs
7:49
to be done is we pursue the
7:50
investigations as the NBI did in the
7:53
SPOs ok but it should happen for all the
7:55
also so here's the question so the NB is
7:58
saying at least in the case of mayor
8:00
Landrieu Espinosa it was arm rub out and
8:03
it wasn't a shootout but the president
8:05
was saying that he told his men dept
8:08
lebon as you have been saying to fight
8:11
back
8:12
what is the effect you think of the
8:14
president's statements that he will have
8:17
allowed them to go to jail to the
8:18
finding of the NBI that it was a rub out
8:21
and not a shootout and consequently the
8:24
possible filing of cases by the DOJ
8:27
actually our position is that in this
8:29
case we should find the cases and let
8:31
the courts ultimately result based on
8:34
the evidence and in fact that's the call
8:36
i also made the second day of Justice
8:37
earlier this week in all the other cases
8:40
where there is a statement of nala ban
8:43
effectively in previous DOJ policy not
8:48
the current one
8:49
the prosecutors would file cases against
8:53
the law enforcement officials Hussein
8:56
and LeBron because you've already
8:58
overcome with the threshold of what's
9:00
called probable cause probable causes a
9:02
determination that a crime had been
9:04
committed and the one who is suspected
9:07
of having committed the crime is the
9:10
person that is currently being
9:12
investigated so in a land nallavan case
9:14
essentially you have a police officer
9:16
that says yes someone died and I was the
9:20
one who did it
9:21
the only difference is there is this
9:23
self-defense the argument right but that
9:26
is not a matter for administrative
9:29
proceedings to determine you don't wash
9:32
your hands and say okay he scared the
9:35
charges must be filed evidence must be
9:37
presented in the courts and the courts
9:39
will have to determine is not abandon
9:41
you
9:42
this specific case of justifying so what
9:44
happens now to summarize this the NDIS
9:48
it's are about it's not a shootout the
9:50
president is basically the president was
9:52
saying that nobody was to shoot up
9:53
another about how are you telling me now
9:56
that it should be almost automatic that
9:59
the oj file this case against the 24
10:01
policeman involved yes it must be
10:04
especially after the NBI hasn't seen
10:07
that the non Lebanon argument that's not
10:10
the lie in this case cases must be filed
10:13
in court and let the courts decide but
10:15
what I'm also saying is even in the
10:17
other pieces it it must be same for
10:19
teachers a lot older than this year okay
10:22
before we go on a break
10:23
chairman what happens if it's a four or
10:26
five man panel that the d.o.g has right
10:29
now looking into this case of the 24
10:33
policeman vs mir Rolanda is not what
10:35
happens if they do not find probable
10:37
costs how would you react to that
10:40
well then it just paints the picture
10:43
that we are that's unfolding really that
10:45
essentially the law enforcement
10:46
officials can do very well whatever they
10:49
want and people will find it difficult
10:54
to secure justice and the problem is
10:56
with this whole non lebon justification
10:59
that men they'll know there's and how
11:04
can we then put anyone to to a Caucasian
11:08
or their excesses what the what the
11:11
president's statement what he said would
11:13
that affect the ongoing probe by the
11:17
d.o.g I hope not that's why we have a
11:19
system of rules and laws
11:21
everyone has their mandates in the DOJ
11:25
must still do their job in essence
11:28
chairman looking into the committee
11:31
report that's how we started this
11:32
interview
11:33
how do you describe the report because
11:34
you know you have senator truly honest
11:36
and I'm requesting lemon committee
11:38
report me on BBM senator Giuliani saying
11:40
i think he called it a piece of garbage
11:42
I'm how would you describe the committee
11:44
report well the statement of fact that
11:49
the committee members have decided
11:51
at this point in the middle of the
11:53
things unfolding to make a determination
11:56
that we at best
11:58
CS premature premature are you at all of
12:02
what is happening now with the CH are
12:05
considering that the death penalty is
12:08
moving quite fast at the house of
12:11
representatives they're going to speaker
12:13
Alvarez we had him a while back and he
12:15
said that he hopes that the house of
12:18
representatives will be able to pass
12:19
this before the Christmas break
12:22
well it appears that that is the plan of
12:25
the speaker in the the first step has
12:27
been arrived at the committee has
12:30
decided to approve the committee of in
12:35
charge of this bill to bring it to the
12:37
floor we had actually requested that
12:40
there's be continuing hearings and to
12:42
join more experts and to look at the
12:44
international development as well but
12:47
the committee felt that it was time to
12:50
stop and pass it to the floor
12:55
we hope that the floor of the house
12:57
might consider that this is again
12:59
something that needs further
13:01
deliberation and put it back to the
13:03
committee but do you think that are over
13:07
that wants to make these of christmas
13:09
gift to president the third day that
13:12
they passed the death penalty be about
13:14
their level and so--but but we will
13:16
continue to try and fight this and all
13:18
levels what do you think about that if
13:20
you're saying that it could possibly be
13:22
a Christmas present by speaker average
13:24
to the president
13:26
yeah well it's essentially what we are
13:29
seeing since President there they came
13:31
to power a policy of promoting violence
13:35
in different forms we have the violence
13:37
that's in the streets now in relation to
13:40
the drug war we now have institutional
13:44
state-sanctioned violence by way of the
13:47
region position of the death penalty but
13:49
the fight isn't over
13:52
there's still the
13:53
on the opportunity for discussions at
13:55
the Senate are you more optimistic about
13:57
the fight in the Senate
13:59
I you know I heard janitor we shall
14:01
develop saying that in the beginning
14:02
there were about seven senators who are
14:04
opposed to it but at last count there
14:06
are about nine or ten well certainly the
14:10
more senators that are posted the better
14:12
because they need 13 to pass a law and
14:17
so nine or ten isn't quite there yet but
14:21
we really why we hoped there would be
14:23
more discussions an assessment of
14:27
everything that's relevant to this in
14:30
fact one of the important things to
14:32
highlight this most states are moving
14:34
away from the death penalty that's a
14:36
Tennessee internationalization and to
14:38
reimpose after we had already abolished
14:41
this is something that is unconscionable
14:44
okay a quick reaction the United Nations
14:47
Human Rights sent a letter to hope you
14:50
don't mind I'm reading it I'm here my
14:51
phone to both leaders of Congress
14:53
speaker Alvarez and Senator koko
14:56
Pimentel and he was saying they were
14:58
saying that they are concerned about
15:00
this revival the possible revival of the
15:03
death penalty that we are a signatory to
15:06
the second optional protocol to the
15:08
International Convention on Civil and
15:11
Political Rights what does this all mean
15:13
chairman yeah this is a very important
15:16
matter sent by the UN high commissioner
15:18
and human rights that Congress should
15:21
take into account and this wasn't
15:22
something that they took into account in
15:24
the house
15:25
we are a party to international
15:27
convention the second option about
15:29
protocol that essentially commits the
15:32
state to do two things
15:34
abolish the death penalty which we did
15:36
but also commits us to not very
15:41
impulsive so if Congress were to
15:44
reimpose the death penalty after it had
15:47
abolished it effectively we will be
15:49
violating this treaty to which we are
15:51
apart now I have a question on that
15:53
because speaker Alvarez that was the
15:55
same argument made by Vice President
15:57
little better and the speaker was saying
15:59
speaker alvarez was saying that
16:01
our loss are superior to us being a
16:05
signatory to any treaty
16:07
what do you say that well first treatise
16:08
are also long now and in fact in the
16:11
scheme of things where there's more
16:14
interruption globally international law
16:17
does have impact in national laws but
16:20
not our own lost eight presidents over
16:22
international laws as being signaled
16:24
that signatories to treaties or
16:26
agreement know they are taken together
16:28
and holistically in fact the
16:30
Constitution itself our own constitution
16:32
which is our fundamental law has a
16:34
specific provision that says we adopt
16:36
the generally accepted principles of
16:38
international law as part of the law of
16:41
the land and also it has another
16:43
provision that says treaties have force
16:47
in effect once they are concurred in so
16:49
what happens is all that everybody is
16:52
survived there is a conflict of law and
16:55
while a low maybe passed by Congress
16:58
that reinforces it when it does so it is
17:01
in direct conflict with another law and
17:04
we will be in violation of that law
17:07
ok let's talk about the war on drugs
17:09
what it what is the number of the chr
17:11
right now in terms of death on war on
17:13
drugs and how many cases are you looking
17:15
into and how many cases have been filed
17:18
we have a
17:19
you know this person killings that are
17:23
as a result of the war on drugs is
17:25
unprecedented in terms of scale and pace
17:27
you know over 5,800 in accordance with
17:32
the tally of the major no we don't have
17:35
our own party actually so we rely on
17:38
what the media and the police report in
17:41
over five months that's about 10,000
17:45
that's a month and it's staggering and
17:48
we just can't keep pace and we're very
17:51
small institution now we only are
17:53
currently investigating all of that 5000
17:56
only 420 cases 420k chinon you have your
18:00
hair school we have a hundred twenty we
18:03
have an intention of trying to
18:05
investigate document uncover the facts
18:08
in all of these cases but we just can't
18:11
do it alone
18:11
that's why we rely on police we rely on
18:14
the NBI we rely on NGOs to continue to
18:19
document you said the number is
18:21
staggering and at some point you compare
18:23
the number the deaths on the war on
18:25
drugs to the deaths during martial law
18:29
and you earned the ire of the son of the
18:31
president vice mayor power to that day
18:34
yeah well I'm just dealing with facts
18:37
that the reality is we now have 5800
18:40
debts if these are to be believed in
18:43
five months and that's certainly far
18:45
more than the deaths that have occurred
18:46
in the first few years of martial law so
18:50
I I concede in a in a census are
18:54
different now
18:55
one was debts that were pursued as part
18:59
of the perpetuation of an authoritarian
19:01
rule the other is that the in the
19:05
pursuit of law and order purpose but in
19:09
either case there are human rights
19:12
standards that have to be complied with
19:14
and it known on vice-mayor the dead that
19:18
was trying to make a distinction between
19:20
the kind of people that are victims of
19:22
Hurricane human rights perspective every
19:25
life every person a victim an organized
19:29
system it is a cream
19:30
now they all have right does that mean
19:32
that what does that make of the times
19:35
now because if you have that comparison
19:37
I understand what you're saying in terms
19:38
of numbers
19:39
what does this period of time mean to
19:43
you compared to the time during martial
19:45
law when there were more killings this
19:46
time than during martial law that we
19:49
haven't learned our lesson that those
19:51
with authority those who are given the
19:54
monopoly of the use of force must in all
19:59
instances weather in time of martial law
20:01
or in time of peace where the
20:04
authoritarian periods or in democratic
20:06
systems must be held to account this is
20:09
a global problem thinking because even
20:12
in the United States people are now at
20:14
an uproar at so many debts arising from
20:16
police operations as well but I'd like
20:19
to do a follow-up on that is it works
20:21
now are you saying that it's worse now
20:24
than then it was during martial well
20:27
that requires more messy assessment and
20:30
analysis no I wouldn't say it's worse in
20:33
the sense that we still have a democracy
20:35
Congress are still operating our quarter
20:38
operating you have a commission right on
20:40
human rights at the saying you know we
20:42
should stop this get back to reason and
20:44
rationality but what this word is the
20:49
fact that people are dying you have a
20:53
seven-year term the Commission on Human
20:55
Rights you're the chairman you have four
20:57
members of the board again as I said a
21:00
seven-year term you have very have a
21:04
very cold relationship with the
21:05
president right now chairman has it
21:08
entered your mind have you thought about
21:10
it that you know because it's so
21:14
difficult possibly for you and your team
21:16
I've spoken to commissioner and another
21:18
Commissioner as well Commissioner
21:20
daddy's have you ever thought of leaving
21:22
your posts are resigning because of the
21:24
current relationship you have with the
21:25
president not the answer to that is no I
21:28
have not thought about it because I when
21:30
I took my oath of office to uphold the
21:33
fan fulfill human rights I
21:35
I knew that this must be done in good
21:38
times as well as in bad times and you
21:41
know all administration's have their
21:42
fair share of human rights violations
21:44
and we need to call them out so we just
21:46
need to speak truth to power and do the
21:48
artwork and remind those in the
21:52
executive department because we're
21:54
independent of the executive department
21:55
we our role is to be a monitor in
21:57
watchdog to remind them of their duties
22:01
and to call them out if they violate
22:02
human right how difficult has it been
22:05
for the chr well it's been difficult in
22:08
terms of the resources needed to keep
22:11
pace but we're still encouraged by the
22:15
commitment of our staff as well as the
22:19
human rights our community and we will
22:22
do the best we can and maybe from day
22:25
today might not be enough but hopefully
22:28
over time it may be enough chairman she
22:31
just called good to have you and of
22:33
course good luck that thank you so much
22:36
very much


1 comment:

  1. Leave our country alone to solve its domestic problem. Our country is so graft and drug ridden. You chr are all bullshit. You better go home in your home town and help clean drug menace society and get rid of the crook and corrupt leaders of the community. When my country under the previous administration is so corrupt that even the elderly passenger at the Manila international airport was victimized by those bullshit personnel, where were you to denouce those culpability? There is the youlanda funds stolen from the typhoon victims, the balikbayan boxes and manymore. Fuck you human rights defenders of corrupt and criminals. To hell you go.

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